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Thread: Why play Seven–Card Stud High-Low?

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    SnappySam's Avatar
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    Why play Seven–Card Stud High-Low?

    Q. Why play Seven–Card Stud High-Low?
    A. Because it’s fun and profitable! In a recent poll on a well known book publisher’s poker forum. the results could be interpreted to mean that compared to Seven-Card Stud and Razz, Hi-Lo has bigger winners and bigger losers. This suggests that there is money to be made – if you can play the game well.

    Some may be under the illusion that Limit games are boring and slow, and that you need a super-power memory to remember all the cards that have come. Whilst I would agree that Limit Hold ‘em is more boring than Ludo, the same cannot be said for 7-Stud Hi-Lo – at least not if you play it like I often do! As for remembering the cards, it’s not an issue – just paying attention will do it.

    It pays to know how to play well in as many of the games as you can, and learning how to play 7-Stud Hi-Lo (sometimes referred to as Stud-8) will also improve your regular Stud and Razz play. A serious player would buy Ray Zee’s book, but here’s a few tips to keep you going.

    Betting
    Most players of this game don’t bet often enough. They fail to bet their drawing hands, seldom reraise and prefer to check and call, as opposed to pushing the action. That is my experience at the $1 MTTs and SnGs at Poker Stars, and where I would normally veer towards a tight-aggressive style at most other forms of poker, this particular game (at these lower limits) bears a more loose-aggressive style of play.
    You can bet, raise and reraise when:

    You have the best hand
    You have a draw to the best hand
    It looks like you have the best hand
    It looks like you have a draw to the best hand
    Opponents are not catching their cards
    Your opponents are not betting
    You are betting and raising on every street and you miss all your draws on the end
    You are showing a pair
    You are showing three suited cards

    Bet without hesitation, raise without hesitation. Don’t ponder – know what cards you need and what will improve your opponent before the next deal so you can act instantly. If they blink, you bet. If you would call a bet, usually bet yourself, especially on 7th Street. Usually bet on 7th if your opponent does not show strength – such as if he or both of you check on 6th. Unless you are quite obviously beat and your opponent is likely to reraise, of course.

    Starting Hands:
    A decent starting hand, as in all of poker, is paramount. Best starting hands at this game are trips, three related low cards that can make a flush and/or a straight, Aces with a low card, three low with Ace, two small cards or a small pair with an Ace, the top pair from what you can see, one high two low to a flush (hoping to catch a low suited card), three high to a straight flush. Under most circumstances you should not play high straights or three low cards (without an Ace) that can’t make a straight or a flush: Ah, 6D, 7D good, AC, 2H, 7S bad.

    Third street play
    Look out for any upcards that you would need for your hand to improve, such as low Diamonds if you have K, 4, 5 Diamonds, or Aces, twos, sixes and sevens if you have 3, 4, 5. Or Aces and eights if you have A, 8, 8. The fewer out there the better. Also look for what cards can and can’t improve your opponent, such as when he is betting with an Ace showing and you and someone else have one each, or a few fives and/or fours are out, thus limiting his low straight potential.

    Always play hands that have the potential to scoop the whole pot, but if it looks like all the other players are going for high hands and worse lows than yours, stay and draw to the low. If most of the other players are showing low possibilities, be very inclined to raise it up with your high hands such as trips or Aces and bet aggressively to knock out and/or extract bets from the low hands, which by definition are drawing hands.

    Fourth Street
    If you improve to a good low draw/flush draw/two pair/trips etc keep betting and/or raising aggressively. If not, fold if there is a bet unless your opponents play weak on later rounds, in which case you can see fifth street. Raise at the right moment – don’t necessarily raise out players too early, but if in position you can often get another call from everyone. Just call along if going for something like a high flush, as you will likely be splitting the pot and need the odds to make it worthwhile. Don’t allow free draws. Beware pairs showing. Look at the upcards all the time.

    Later Streets
    Keep on betting unless there is real danger from both ends, but even then you need to keep the pressure on. A pair showing could mean a made full house, so be careful but don’t let up. If you miss all your draws on 7th street, it’s usually best to bet anyway, but if you encounter a player who keeps calling you down, if he checks on 6th street, you should also check and only bet if you hit your hand on 7th.

    Apply commonsense, use your eyes, watch the other player’s style, check and fold if you have very little. Don’t defend your bring-in. Don’t raise on Third with drawing hands but do so with Aces, and trips to knock out the drawing hands. Sometimes slow down, but be ready to get very aggressive with your good hands.

  2. #2
    eberetta1's Avatar
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    I like this variant of poker. Hi/lo really helps the building up of player points on a poker site to qualify for big monthly tourneys or special buy-ins as I find myself all-in way more frequently than regular NL Hold'em.

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    Akorps's Avatar
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    Thanks Sam! I like Ray Zee's book, wish I had a similar book on PLO8

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    offrdmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akorps View Post
    Thanks Sam! I like Ray Zee's book, wish I had a similar book on PLO8
    wasn't sure you meant a book on just PLO8 but this one covers both Stud/Omaha at Amazon under $20 for kindle users =)

    High-Low-Split Poker, Seven-Card Stud and Omaha Eight-or-Better For Advanced Players by Ray Zee is the third book in the "For Advanced Players" series.

  5. #5
    SnappySam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by offrdmom View Post
    wasn't sure you meant a book on just PLO8 but this one covers both Stud/Omaha at Amazon under $20 for kindle users =)

    High-Low-Split Poker, Seven-Card Stud and Omaha Eight-or-Better For Advanced Players by Ray Zee is the third book in the "For Advanced Players" series.
    Yes, that's the edition I have. It compiles two books. Though the Omaha-8 part deals with strictly limit O-8

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    Akorps's Avatar
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    Yeah, I use that Zee book for Omaha 8, but since it is for limit only I have to think a little bit about how to translate it into PLO8

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    SnappySam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akorps View Post
    Yeah, I use that Zee book for Omaha 8, but since it is for limit only I have to think a little bit about how to translate it into PLO8
    That's how I started off in HE - Sklansky's Advanced, which was for limit. That was when poker wasn't so popular, and good books harder to come by.

    I really should do more reading on Omaha-8. Didn't you recommend one a while back? Or was that for Omaha?

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    Akorps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnappySam View Post
    That's how I started off in HE - Sklansky's Advanced, which was for limit. That was when poker wasn't so popular, and good books harder to come by.

    I really should do more reading on Omaha-8. Didn't you recommend one a while back? Or was that for Omaha?
    Zee's book is the best I have for Omaha 8.

    For Omaha hi, Slotboom's books are the best I have ("Secrets of Professional Pot Limit Omaha", the first book in the series, is good for short stacking

  9. #9
    SnappySam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akorps View Post
    Zee's book is the best I have for Omaha 8.

    For Omaha hi, Slotboom's books are the best I have ("Secrets of Professional Pot Limit Omaha", the first book in the series, is good for short stacking
    I'm wondering how I can get more to grips with Omaha-8. I guess there will be material online but I tend not to read a lot on online poker - mainly experience is what I count on. Which is quite odd, as when playing serious live poker I read everything, all the time. And when I wasn't reading I was thinking about what I had just been reading. And would go on to beat players who only had experience. Somewhat ironic, isn't it?

  10. #10
    Akorps's Avatar
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    I think PLO is easier to beat shortstacking, than PLO8 is. I was trying to think why, and it may be because with A2xx you don't have all that much equity before the flop, so you want to see the flop cheap with A2xx, which is kind of counter to normal shortstacking strategy.

    I was trying to figure out the A2xx hand with the least equity today, heads up against a random hand, before the flop, and I think it is A229 unsuited (less than 50% equity

    Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation ?
    600,000 trials (Randomized)

    as 2h 2d 9c 47.79% 178,067 243,166 4,248 194,275 10,703
    * * * * 52.21% 204,347 352,586 4,248 83,976 10,703




    One method for learning PLO8 that I use is to buyin for the minimum, trying to use that shortstack stuff, then if I get it all in and lose my stack, to look up the hand afterwards and see how much equity I had.

    edit: ooops, A222 unsuited is worse. My excuse is that I just assume trips are bad, so I didn't check that case

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